What? Another Centro-matic album? Love You Just The Same, released September on Misra Records is the 137th album by the Denton, Texas rock quartet since its inception in eight years ago. OK, perhaps that's a slight exaggeration, but there's no denying the group is freakin' prolific. And that's not even counting the releases as South San Gabriel or Will Johnson, the band's frontman, he who churns out songs -- good songs -- about as often as the rest of us breathe. Yes, it is hard to keep up, isn't it?

But keeping up is worth it. Centro-matic's dense music, swathed in distorted guitars, exploding drums and moody folk, loosely derived from the foot of St. Neil and '80s college rock, is an exhilarating, challenging, and ultimately enduring listen. The quartet -- Johnson, multi-instrumentalist Scott Danborn, bassist Mark Hedman, and drummer Matt Pence -- creates the kind of rock that adventurous listeners just might be discovering and ultimately cherishing for years.

Love You Just The Same is no different. It comprises several songs written by Johnson over the past few years that had yet to make it onto any of the group's other 136 albums. It also marks a first for Centro-matic -- it was co-produced by Varnaline's Anders Parker -- no small fact for a band that has cherished honing its own sound with great amounts of insularity all these years.

However, still plenty crucial in the studio this time out was Pence, the band's drummer and so much more. Aside from Johnson's restless song craft and scruffy voice, it is Pence's sound shaping that might be most indelible to Centro-matic's enigmatic assault. Namely, it's those booming drums, like ballast that keeps a four-headed monster on its feet, surely prone to drive any "properly trained" studio engineer completely mad. So wrong, they're right.

Others have taken notice. Pence, who started experimenting with sound recording before he was perhaps able to grow his first facial hair, is emerging as an in-demand engineer and producer among indie-rock types. Recent albums that bare his fingerprints include Nadine's Strange Sessions, Collin Herring's Avoiding The Circus, and bluesman CeDell Davis's Lighting Struck The Pine, which featured the backing band of Seattle rock royals Pete Buck, Scott McCaughey, and Barrett Martin.

MoMZine editor  Neal Weiss caught up with Pence recently to learn more about Love You Just The Same and his approach to recording. And just in time. Johnson and Pence recently teamed for a Johnson solo album -- a five-day retreat in which Johnson played all the instruments and Pence played songcatcher. And there's discussion of another working on another South San Gabriel and/or Centro-matic album in 2004. In other words, don't look away, don't even bother sleeping. Blink and you might miss the latest chapter in Centro-matic's ever-expanding oeuvre.

MoMZine: What's a "shit storm?"

PENCE: When we had to actually start working on this record we didn't have a title and Will decided to call it the "Shit Storm" just because it seemed like this is supposed to be such a big record for us. This is finally the big culmination of these songs that people have been listening to live and asking us over and over again to record, and finally we committed them to tape. We knew that definitely for some of our fans it would be a big moment for them. Not to overstate our importance at all, but there were just some songs that people were harping on us for years to record. Will called it the "Shit Storm." I tried to get us to have that be the name of the album but I couldn't get it through. Some people thought it was a bad idea. I'm not really a marketing genius.

MoMZine: We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

PENCE: When we did rough sequences of the mixes I wrote "Shit Storm" on every one of them in a effort to get people used to the title to the point where people might accept it as the name of the album, but that didn't work.

MoMZine: So what about this album excites you? Where does it take Centro-matic?

PENCE: I honestly think it's the best collection of songs that we've ever committed to tape. I have always had a great love for the first record, Redo The Stacks. It's a very pure collection of songs. Since then I've loved all of our songs but sometimes there are other reasons why recordings of songs are great and it's not just pure songwriting. I personally think that, as far as pure songwriting, this is just a really super-strong collection of songs. And some of what I tried to do with the engineering and production maybe served the songs a little bit more than some of my work has in the past.

MoMZine: The band did something it's never done before, let an outsider in or the process. How did Anders help you? 

PENCE: Anders co-produced it with the band. I never think of myself as being the producer of the band and I'm never credited that way on our records, I personally think there's an understanding on every record that the band produces the record. I think it's kind of wrong to say that so-and-so produced the record and he's the only one creatively that spearheaded it. All the music that was created before the producer came into the picture, that's all production -- arrangement, tempos, and all that sort of stuff. So we finally had somebody to help up with it. I engineered it and Anders produced it. He became like a fifth member of the band for that period of time and really helped us out a lot. He didn't get super nitty-gritty into the details and he didn't really change what we do because he was already very familiar with what we were and we've been his backing band as well.

MoMZine: Since working with Anders, you also recorded a track for a Robyn Hitchcock tribute with Walt Vincent (Pete Yorn, Liz Phair). It's time to open up the inner-circle to some outsiders?

PENCE: For a long time I was not open to other people working on Centro-matic records because I really wanted to home my own skills and really figure out how to present the band in the way I wanted to present them. And we're finally getting to the point now where I want other people's input, I want to have somebody to produce while I engineer, or, conceivably, somebody to record and produce it and maybe I'd only be the drummer. That's fine too. With Walt, it's the first time that somebody else has mixed anything that we've worked on and that's pretty exciting.

MoMZine: What's different about this record?

PENCE: The way that our records used to be recorded, they were definitely intentionally low-fi on some levels. I always wanted our records to have tons of character more than anything else. I really didn't care if the symbols were too harsh and overbearing or if the vocals has too many S's in it. I wanted the record to jump off the speakers and capture your attention even if there were technical imperfections. That is a direct philosophy that comes from Will. He originally hired me to work on the very first Centro-matic record because I was brand new and would take chances on stuff like that. And he's always had the attitude of presenting our music warts and all. So it's been unusual that this new record is a little bit smoother and in some ways has a little less character than other records in the past, but because we've done so much before, I just felt like it was time to present the songs a little bit less dressed up, in a less distracted way, so the songs jump out of the speakers more than the sounds do. I don't know if that's really accurate or not. Sometimes you're so close to something that I might think the new record sounds much different and it really doesn't, and that's probably the case. Like, we think we sound nothing like Guided By Voices or whatever, but every article that we read compares us to a certain collection of bands. And that's fine.
 

I know that we're very close to it. And part of being close to it too is a positive thing. In the past it was something we didn't want to lose by using somebody else who was just gonna make all the drums sound really dry and tight, make all the guitars kind of pretty sounding and clean up the vocals and make it really easy to listen to. In some ways we've wanted to challenge people, I guess. Although I hate to say that because I am not an elitist when it comes to music. When you look through my record collection you would not find the coolest indie-rock record collection of all time and I'm not a person that looks out into our audience and thinks, do these people deserve to hear our music? I'm the exact opposite. I would love everybody to love our music but we're definitely not a band that is willing to stray from what we believe in, in order to have Joe Schmo love us.

MoMZine: There's an interesting sort of opaqueness to Centro-matic's music. Perhaps it's not for everybody?

PENCE: Will's melodies are so catchy and his music generally is so easy to like I think. But there is something weird where it's actually not as easy to like they very first time you listen to it as memory would serve you. After you love the band you go back and think, how can this be hard for anybody to love? People constantly say, "Why aren't you much more successful?" You're right, there is an opaqueness to our music. We're not trying to make it difficult, I think that's just the way it is. There's no doubt that the music we listen to collectively is not that easy to get either. In a lot of ways we're the poppiest band that we listen to. When we're driving in the band we listen to a lot of stuff. Funny, we get labeled alt-country and we don't feel like we sound like at all. But I must admit, when we drive around in the band we're listening to music that I guess could be considered in some ways alt-country -- tons of Neil Young, a lot of Lambchop, a lot of Vic Chesnutt, things like that. We're definitely not a band that's listening to music with tons of overt hooks. We're drawn to music that's darker. Funny, we don't listen to that much guitar rock.

MoMZine: But it's the guitar rock that comes out.

PENCE: I think sometimes you can't change what you are and a lot of times what you are is determined when you are coming out of high school and the first few years of college. And we can look at Will's music specifically and say he loved the Replacements, Dinosaur, Jr., Guided By Voices. That's the music that formed his personal identity at that time. And now there are all these other influences on top of that that really don't sound like those things, but yet I don't think he can change what he is basically at his core. He's always gonna be a person that writes catchy melodies and basic pop songs, no matter how hard he may actually try to escape it.

MoMZine: And plenty of them as well. Are you beyond being stunned by his prolific nature?

PENCE: Yes. The only thing that could stun us now is if he stopped writing songs. I have to tell you, he has actually slowed down a little bit recently and I know it's partly because he just knows that we're never gonna catch up to him, that we're never gonna be able to record all these songs. And I think on some level, mentally, it's like "We have this other work to do, we need to catch up on all this other stuff, so I'm not gonna make it any harder on us by writing a bunch of new material."

MoMZine: Can a band be too prolific? Is there danger in having released so many albums in so short a period of time?

PENCE: I think as a band we agree that a band can be too prolific, and that's why South San Gabriel and the Will Johnson solo stuff exist. Honestly, if we maybe could do it over again it would be a good idea for people not to know that South San Gabriel and Centro-matic are the same thing because I almost wish that Centro-matic could put out a record just every couple years and that's about the kind of pace we're on now. But when people look at us, they look at it all together and go "Wow, you put out more than a record a year." That is a lot to digest.

You could say that we're too prolific and that would be a valid criticism, but we feel like people still want to hear what we're putting out. We don't feel like we're turning people off. So we'll probably take it too far and when we realized we've taken it too far we'll pull back. Also, we're the kind of band that, if we didn't have a record label that was gonna put out music for us, we'd just keep making records. Honestly, I don't want to stop making Centro-matic records. We waited too long to put out Navigational, our second record, and it's because we were trying to figure out what was happening with labels. After that experience we will never wait around for a label again. People can even say that Love You Just The Same, that we should have waited around for a bigger label than Misra. No way. Misra is a great label. Period. But there are people that look at us and think, "How are you guys not on a major label? How has all this happened and you're not hugely successful?" We're just not gonna wait around for it to happen. We're gonna make records and if people want to put them out great, if they don't that's fine too. Then we'll put them out and nobody will buy them. It's just part of being alive, to make music.

MoMZine: So are you OK with the level of success?

PENCE: Actually, for the last three years we've been really happy. I think we are about the most satisfied band I know. It doesn't mean we wouldn't like to be more successful at all, but we're not even close to the end of our rope. Three years ago I was sitting in my car, before Distance And Clime came out, and I was listening to some four tracks Will had done that I had just finished mixing down, and then I was listening to the South San Gabriel record, all in a row, and I almost cried I was so happy. Just listening to that much good music that I had been a part of, in a quiet place where I could reflect, it meant so much to me. And at that moment, and most of the time, I am so happy to put out good music that it doesn't matter where the music goes and how many people hear it. It's not the reason why we make it.

MoMZine: How 'bout financially? Does it keep you all afloat?

PENCE: Basically it's at a point where it could keep Will afloat because he does solo tours. It doesn't keep any of the rest of us afloat. I'm a recording engineer normally. I love being a recording engineer. I view my life as one big fairytale. I get to record bands that I love for a living and I get to play in what is basically my favorite band. But Scott and Mark do have pretty straight, normal jobs: Scott is a waiter and Mark works at a title company. If we could do the kind of touring we just did constantly [more substantial] we would make a living. But for me, I'm married and love being at home and love my home life, love recording, and I'm just not willing to tour that much to make a living playing music. I think it gets stale on a certain level. I'm very, very happy where we are now, touring about three months out of the year. And then we spend a couple months out of the year making records and then I spend the rest of the time recording other people. It's a really, really good life. The only thing I would hope is that we could get so successful that we could tour three months out of the year and make enough money that it would sustain us so maybe we didn't have to have jobs. We're building up to it. Who doesn't use the R.E.M. model as the ultimate way to make your band successful? On your sixth record, Green, a break-out, huge record. Now, in no way are we were gonna be R.E.M., but we take that model and use it on a smaller scale.

MoMZine: Have you had larger labels approach you?

PENCE: When we first started out, after Redo The Stacks, there was a big buzz about us and things looked really good in terms of going onto a major label. But I have to tell you, we were legitimately gun-shy about being on a major label. Will used to be in a band called Fun Land, which was on Arista, and they didn't have a very good experience, like most bands don't. So he was especially just like, "I've already done it, and I'm not saying 'no,' but they're gonna surprise me if they're gonna convince me that this is worth the while." That's part of the reason why it took so long to put the second record out. We were figuring out what we wanted to do. Labels definitely caught wind that we were gun-shy. Now many years later it's a lot harder, but now we'd be much more open to being on a major label now than when we started out, just like we're much more open to maybe having outside people working on our records. We just feel like we've done that thing and we're not scared to do something different. Sometimes if you're very young, you have to figure out what you are first before you can move on to another level and most people are not patient enough to do that. Most people look for outside validation. And we really were determined very early on to make sure we knew exactly what we were and that we were doing exactly what we wanted to do before we accepted outside validation. In some ways it was almost as if, if somebody liked us too much too soon, we were almost skeptical of that. Our goal has always been to be on a big indie label, like those are the best of both worlds. We'd like to get a little bit of money and sell 50,000 copies of our record, and we'd like to make a living playing music. But we're not looking for a million-dollar contract. There's so much bad stuff that comes along with that we don't think we'd survive it as a band.

It's a cliché, but it's the journey that's important, it's not the destination. Years later, we're stronger than we ever would have been if we had been on a big label early on.

MoMZine: What do you look for in a production gig? Do you take all-comers?

PENCE: I'm not a big shot or anything. I record mid-level bands, I'm not a person who records major-label stuff. I do turn things down if I'm not into what they're doing musically. It's not ever that they're not good enough for me to record them, it's just that my schedule is so packed, I'm not gonna have time to record everybody. So I'm just forced to make some determinations. Also, the studio is not listed in the phone book. We don't do any advertising and don't do anything to drum up business, ever. And that works to our advantage. We're just in the network of people that we know, so when I work on a record for Nadine or who ever, then bands that love that band approach me and we work it out.

MoMZine: Is there a Matt Pence sound?

PENCE: A little bit. I use a lot of compression and there are some things that I kind of overdo. In my career I have made mistakes and taken things too far. And when I've done that people have responded to it and that's the thing they liked about my recordings. So, in a weird way, some times I want to pull back and then I kinda realize that's the whole reason people want to use me, I did something that really captured their attention. So I guess there is a certain part of what I do that takes things too far that has created a sound. But I don't have a method that's specific that I wouldn't be willing to use a different method. I'm not a very good documenter, I don't write down what I do and I don't consciously say I'm gonna do it the same way every time. Sometimes when I'm working on something I kinda think back to, What did I do on that record, what mike and what pre-amp? And I can't remember. And it kinda frustrates me. But I kinda believe you shouldn't be re-creating in the studio, you be creating, and that's what I set out to do every time.

MoMZine: Are there certain things in general that you know you're gonna try to get out of an artist?

PENCE: It's case by case. I don't try and push my agenda onto a band. It's the opposite. Bands are coming to me asking me to do what I do for them. For the first few days of the session I let things sit and I let the band feel their way around a little bit and I give them a little direction and as they get more comfortable with me and trust me more I make more suggestions and try and give them more of why they originally hired me. But I sometimes want to see what the band wants to do first and try and figure out what do they want to get from the session. There are some people who call me and want me to work on their records who are not as familiar with my material as I might have first thought. So I don't want to just distort the drums and make the drum kit as big as possible if that's not really what they're looking for. I have worked on records where the drums haven't been huge. If somebody were to listen to a South San Gabriel record and come to me then it would be a big mistake to distort the drums and make everything sound ultra-roomy, because those records don't sound like that.

MoMZine: What was your approach with Nadine?

PENCE: Honestly, I just tried to give them big drums. It was pretty typical, I love big drum sounds and that's what I want to try and give bands. I want to make things clear, for sure, but I want to give them character and I want to give them big drum sounds. That's what people usually want. Guitar sounds are determined mostly by guitar players, so a lot of the character of the record is just gonna be there from the guitar player to begin with, and that's the way Steve [Rauner] is. He definitely has his own sound. We discussed it and I definitely tried to push him in certain directions but he knows exactly what he wants. We had some discussions. I think we made a lot of compromises on that record that worked our really well. But I think my recording all stems from the drum sound. If I've got the right drum sound going originally, then the bass will be easy to fit in and the guitars will be easy to fit in. And vocally, I definitely take my cues from the artist, almost completely. I just ask them what they want. I think vocals are the one thing I probably produce the least. I think if a person has a certain vocal delivery, that's really the heart of what the band is and I just don't know how much you can teach that to somebody. I don't have time to give a singer vocal lessons. It's not gonna work.

Nadine's a very quirky band, since they've had a lot of experience recording and have their own studio, I thought that they would be really comfortable in the studio. Centro-matic is so comfortable in the studio that when we did vocals for the last South San Gabriel record, Will was in the room singing the vocals and Mark had the TV on mute watching Spanish television. Spanish television is distracting and yet Will was like, "Whatever, it really doesn't matter." And if you listen to the lyrics on the South San Gabriel record, they are dark and they are so the opposite of what was going on in the room at that time. We're just really good a recording, we're not distracted. And I thought Nadine was gonna be the same way but they really weren't. It was a big lesson to me because I definitely have certain expectations, sometimes too high based on what Centro-matic is as a band. Not that Nadine didn't meet my expectations, they wanted to be surprisingly private when they performed. There's nothing wrong with that and, from doing that record, I have a lot of respect for that. I do think that when you perform you should be at your best and you should be concentrating at your fullest and you should be in a special moment that you want captured on tape. Sometimes if you're too cavalier about it, it's a sign that you're just not being careful enough.

MoMZine: When did you first start listening to music in terms of production?

PENCE: When I was a kid and I listened to the Police and the Who, I immediately noticed the drumming and of course loved it. Those are just about the two greatest drummers of all time. The first Police record I listened to was Zenyatta Mondatta, and I noticed how good the hi-hats sounded. And I was so frustrated by the fact that my hi-hats didn't sound like that. And I started recorded myself with a single Realistic microphone down in the basement, trying to find the best place for the mike.  And I would tape things on the radio all the time. And I kept noticing, "Man the stuff on the radio sounds so much better than when I record CD to tape. Why?" It took me a long to figure out that there's extra EQ and compression on the radio that you're not gonna get from CD. It's really funny. I literally was doing that stuff when I was 10 or 11 years old. And then it didn't occur to me to even become an engineer until 10 years later.

MoMZine: What's your dream production gig?

PENCE: Oh man. I don't know if I could even answer that. That's too scary.

MoMZine: How about an artist in history that you would have liked to have produced, perhaps at a certain time? Like Neil Young during Harvest, for example.

PENCE: I think that Who's Next, from the Who, is just about the greatest record in rock history. Now, I will concede that Who records were probably impossible to make, based on the characters involved, and that I think Glyn Johns is an amazing engineer that I could never in a million years even come close to. But I've always been disappointed on some levels with the way that Who records sound, and wish that I could have been involved in something like that. I mean, there's a sound there that can not be duplicated, there's no way you'd ever capture Keith Moon correctly, it's just probably not possible. But it would have been really fun to have tried.